Best Practices for Social Proof w/ Chantelle Andercastle

Social proof is one thing every entrepreneur needs—but also kinda dreads. (Possibly more than SEO…) But think about what happens if you have SEO in place → your ICA gets to your site & there’s no testimonial from a client. 👀  They’re gonna click away so fast, friend! Chantelle Andercastle is here to help you make sure that does NOT happen. She’s giving us the full 411 on all things social proof: what it is, how to ask for it, & what to do with it. This is a great conversation you’re not gonna want to sleep on!

With this episode you’ll be able to:

• Discover how to make it less awkward to ask for client testimonials.
• Uncover if you should even ask for testimonials or reviews.
• Learn the best way to phrase questions for testimonials or case studies. 

Links & Resources:
HoneyBook
Testimonial Template + Training
Case Study Interview Questions
Brittany’s 3/5 Profile Experience

Connect w/ Chantelle:
Website
Instagram

Related Episodes:
Ashleigh’s Case Study
Automate Testimonials w/ Colie

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Transcript

0:04

Welcome back to the Basic B Podcast. I am of course, as usual, stoked to have you here and I have a really wonderful guest that I get to now put her in the hot seat. I was over on her podcast and we had a really fun conversation about human design and business. I'll make sure that's linked below, but I get to talk with Chantelle Andercastle today and we're talking about social proof. We're going to get deep here. So if this is something that you don't feel super strong in, or you want to improve things, or you just want to hear some other tips, tricks and strategies, stick around. But before I bring her on, of course, I'm going to give you a quick intro. Chantelle Andercastle is a mentor to service based business owners and the author of the Aligned action series for solo entrepreneurs. Through her experiences working one on one with hundreds of entrepreneurs, her Bachelor of Education and teaching background, Chantelle has developed a unique approach that centers alignment and self awareness as key business skills. Chantelle offers hands on help for clients to save time and skip steps, get things done in ways that feel aligned, demystify business, but more deeply, she helps entrepreneurs establish a continuous introspection implementation cycle. She's passionate about inspiring women in business. She supports aligned action series readers via a monthly community coaching call, delivers engaging workshops to groups and organizations, and is the host of a popular podcast, the Aligned Action podcast. Chantelle, I'm so excited to have you here today. Yeah, me too. It's been too long since we spoke and we only just recorded your episode. I know it's been a few weeks. Okay. So I'm so excited to get into all things social. I don't think I've dedicated a full episode. Oh, exciting. Yeah, really. To some of these questions. I mean, I've talked about testimonials and case studies and that kind of thing, but I don't think I've gone so deep. And before we get into my line of questioning for you, I'm going to ask you the question I ask everyone who joins me, and there's no wrong answer. So don't panic because I didn't prep you for this at all. But the question is, which do you believe is the most important for sales, SEO, storytelling, or social proof? I'm going to go with social proof. I'm a little bit biased, but social proof? Say more. What do you feel like is so amazing about social proof? I feel like SEO is what gets people there, storytelling is what keeps people there. But social proof is what brings those stories to life and makes them feel more relatable and I'll say, allows the reader to center themselves in the story. Yeah, I could not agree more. So when we're talking about social proof, I like to not assume that everyone knows exactly what we're talking about. So what do you consider social proof? Yeah, I use social proof as a bit of an umbrella term. And for me, that incorporates things like reviews and testimonials. Yes, but also things like feedback and observation and also any of the logo sections or any time that you're featuring, like an as seen in section or anything like that. I agree. I also will add in because one of my mentors, Brittany McBean, brought this up one time on a coaching call, and we were all just kind of like, oh, yeah, and she's talking to a group of copywriters. She was mentioning that statistics even count as social proof because it's still some other entity, some other group of people who are saying like, hey, this is a thing. So I love reminding us all that that's a thing, because I often forget myself. Yeah, actually, as soon as I stopped talking, I was like, oh, you didn't say numbers. Numbers also count. Like, you could even hear it in my bio of through working with hundreds of entrepreneurs. That's social proof. I didn't read you a testimonial in that, but that's an element of that. And I should also say screenshots count as well. So any kind of screenshot or if you've ever been on someone's website and they say, you know, so and so just added this to their cart, that also counts. Oh, that's a good one, too. I didn't even think about that. I do know that I've seen that during the checkout process before. That's a good point. I'm so glad that I, like, helped. Us continue that on. The question I get a ton and I would love your thoughts is at what point in the process do you ask for feedback or testimonials or reviews? I think that's definitely a very individual decision. Depending on what kind of business that you have, I like to teach that social proof should be integrated into your client experience, whatever that means for you. So I have noticed that sometimes preparing clients from the outset that you will be asking for social proof later can be very helpful and instructive because it helps them to frame their experience in a different way along the way. So occasionally I'll encourage someone to maybe have just a nod to that at the beginning of working with someone to maybe reflect on where they are, because the before is so important. And so just bringing awareness to that, thinking about the before and where you are currently at the beginning and letting them know that at the end of our engagement, working together, I'll be asking you a series of questions or heads up. This is what the testimonial form looks like, so that when it comes later, they're not scrambling and having to work backwards, more like intentional, that they've thought about it throughout the process. That said, I don't think there's no wrong place to ask for testimonials except the way that doesn't work, the way that you tried, but doesn't actually work for you. So I think you can experiment with having it at different places. I think that maybe there is an optimal way, maybe. But really what's more important is actually remembering to do the asking. As long as you ask, I don't think it's the wrong time to ask. Even if you ask in a moment where, say, you have an unhappy client, and even if you ask and it feels awkward and whatever, there's still a lot to be learned from that feedback that you might get. And you also, you learn a lot about yourself through it as well. So that's maybe a broader, deeper answer than you were looking for. So to recap, it fits into your client experience where you feel it fits best into your client experience, which may take some trial and error, but sometimes it's nice to prepare the client and let them know ahead of time where that's going to fit. I think that's a really smart point, too, to just like, set expectations. That's something that I have always loved to do. I love to do that with my massage practice. And because I had that mindset, I really have tried my best to bring that into the online business that I have. But setting expectations can really help people, like you said, just to frame it a little bit differently. And you brought up like, I could go four different ways. And I love what you shared because you touched on so many different things that are really important to think about, you know, during this client feedback asking process, how can we make it less awkward to ask for reviews and feedback and testimonials? This is my favorite question. Thank you for asking. I didn't even, I don't even think I fed this to you in my form, but I love to talk about this because the best way to avoid awkwardness when asking is to make asking automatic. So what I mean by that is this a perfect follow up to the previous question of once you've decided, okay, it's going to fit here. In my client experience, do everything in your power to automate that. So I recommend in my book, I have a whole page on like, options of how to do that. But you're trying to avoid you physically having to go and type the email every time with different wording. Like, whatever you're feeling that day, it's trying to avoid you having to bring it up awkwardly. If that doesn't feel right for you, you know what I'm. You feel most awkward about? Like, is it the wording? Is it the format of the asking? Is it that you're stressed about what the response might be? Is that you feel like you shouldn't need to ask. Sometimes people feel that way, like, oh, a testimonial should be freely given, I shouldn't have to ask for it. So introspect a little, think about what exactly feels awkward about it to you, and then support yourself in that. So having an email template that automatically goes out after a certain point, like after you've worked with that client three times, or after two months, or at the end of your project, like wherever it seems to make sense, make that automatic. Have it written already in your brand voice and it just sends automatically. Ideally, or you just have a reminder to yourself of, okay, copy paste, enter the template, hit send, and that will feel less awkward because you're not then overthinking it every time. You don't really have to think about it at all. That's the beauty of automating it. So I know for myself in a previous business, I would have it as part of my Dubsado workflow and it would immediately go to the client one week after the project end date. So I always set my project beginning date and end date, and then that was set as an automatic email, and the email directed them to the form, and then the form asked the questions. Another thing that can feel awkward for people is the follow up. Most people just won't do that. Yeah, I definitely experienced that at the beginning, and then I thought, no, there's got to be a bit of wait because people are busy and if you never follow up, you're not really engaging in the kind of openness to feedback that is values aligned. So I called myself in and I did set a reminder, I think maybe one week after, and not that I'm saying everyone's needs to be a week after, that's just what worked for me, because my timeframe working with clients was so short. So it was a four week window that we worked together. So if a week after that, at the five week mark, that's when they got the request. Then at the six week mark, it makes sense to get a reminder. So that's not a rule. Uh, it's just what worked for me in my client experience at the time. And it removed the awkwardness, because, honestly, it was Dubsado who was asking for the testimonial, not me. Right, exactly. It's kind of like outsourcing that task, which is really helpful from, like, a perspective shift. Yeah. I had the same experience where I needed to teach myself the art of the follow up, and I just started to notice my own behavior. I would let testimonial request it in my inbox for a while, and I would leave them unread, because if I leave something unread, it means that I have to tend to it. So I would do that even if it was quite a ways beyond the ask. But I started to realize, oh, here I am, like, you know, in a relationship, but I don't have children, I don't have, like, lots of things going on, and I don't have a big team. And so, like, I don't have these other things, but my clients have these other things going on. They're probably busy. They probably had the best of intentions, and I probably just need to be like, hi, remember that thing, if you have some time? Like, it'd be great. Like, here, I'm just bumping this up again. Yeah. So I love that. I definitely have thoughts, but, like, what are some different ways that you can ask for testimonials? We've talked about the survey form, but what else could we be doing? Those two schools of thought are two main options for me, and that's, like, form or open ended. I'm sure that you have lots of creative ideas, too, leading into the case study realm about that. So I can. I can, you know, send it back your way after I answer. I think that what I have observed to work well with my clients who work in wellness and creative spaces and are solo entrepreneurs who mostly work with clients who are not in a business. So by that, I mean, like, yes, I'm b, two b, but my clients are usually b, two c. So they are like doulas or naturopaths, or like, they're working with people, not business owners necessarily. Or if they're working with business owners, it's not in a business capacity. So what I found works well in those spaces is a combination where a form also includes something open ended, so. Or an option for open ended. So the form could have four questions, but there's also a question maybe at the beginning and at the end of that is not a question that was confusing and basically just says, like, hey, if you don't feel like answering questions, that's totally fine. If you just want to write something from the heart, go for it. Here's your large text box to do that. And if you would rather just send me an email or DM or like record a video, then that's cool too. When I use this in my brand new web business, I used to have a little check mark at the bottom of my form that would say I'm willing to record a 32nd video testimonial with a little yes no checkbox. And I let them know that this is no different than filming an Instagram story. Just like set the camera to vertical and talk and that's it. You don't even need to edit it. I will edit the beginning and the end of like the reaching to start the video and so making it like super easy for them to choose that option or not choose that option. So for me, I've been very form based. I do absolutely see the value in the case study format, in the video format, in just the screenshot format as well. Always asking clients if I can screenshot something that they've sent or that they, you know, they've emailed or dmed. And I guess the other form would be recording testimonials, just like things that have come up organically, so things you haven't even necessarily asked for. But I'll notice if a client compliments something that I'm doing, I'll be like, oh, let me write that down. And do you mind if I use that as a testimonial? Kind of having an awareness all the time of picking up those little things and gathering them. And that's not a formal testimonial, and you can't get that out of a form. Right. But having just an ear for that as well. Conversations can become social proof if you're having an awareness. Certainly helps that I have the otter like the transcribe on all the time and so I can go back to a recording and look at, okay, what exactly did they say there? And can I package that, leverage that, get their consent and use it in whatever form in a sales page or anything like that? Yeah, you mentioned a lot of things that I like to do, which is great. So definitely like the surveys or forms, email asks where, like you said it can be open ended. And it's like, hey, would you be open to writing a testimonial, video testimonials? And that can even be, you know, in a case study interview, you could take a clip of it and use that. You could use that video interview as a case study. Like you mentioned, audio testimonials are great as well. I have a lot of people that they like to chat with me on Voxer. And so sometimes I've asked them, hey, that was really great. Do you mind if I click that and use it and then screenshots? So what I really like to do is, and this doesn't help with the automating part of it, but I have an automation going and I, I'm always listening, like you mentioned, it's just something I've always done because I'm like, oh, that's how I could say that. Or that's how I could explain that. Or that's how you felt about this thing. Neat. How could I shine a light on it? But what I like to do in addition to the automation is noticing what their preference is for communication. Do they like getting on Zoom? Do they like doing the voxer voice memos? Are they messaging me on Instagram? Are they sending me really long winded emails? What is that preference for them? And then in addition to the automation going out, either this could be my follow up or this is my initial ask, you know, you could do whatever with that. And definitely like throughout the project, like you were mentioning too. And another area that's often overlooked as an opportunity to source feedback is that intake form. I want to say I have a couple of questions that are seated in there so that I really am always collecting that voice of customer, that market research. Then I could also take that inquiry form. There are answers there. And I could take that potentially with that survey form at the end of the project. And I could marry those and use those two pieces to create a case study without even needing to interview the client. So you've got lots of options. You definitely talked about a lot, but just to kind of give anyone listening another perspective on the subject, just things that you can think about that you maybe didn't think to think about. Yeah, those are great observations. I love learning all the time and I think we obviously we share this topic in common. So I love hearing your insights about it too. I've done the same with the context at the beginning. I have a little section on my intake forum that's like contextual questions. I don't remember what my title is, it's better than that. But where I ask things like, what did you Google when you were looking for me? Or like, what have you tried before to solve your problem? How would you describe how you feel about where you're at right now? Before we get started, but context questions are good. They're so good. And I know that you've definitely got resources we're going to talk about, but if you're listening and you're like, I could really use some help with these questions. I like creating fill in the blank or finish the sentence questions. I call them madlibs for testimonials. So I have a testimonial template where it's a copyable Google form and it has, like, a list of questions. So if you're listening or you're watching and you're like, I could really use something that's an option in addition to whatever Chantel's going to say at the end, because I know she's got some great resources. So this is another one of the things that you mentioned, kind of like speaking to those, like, oopsie moments. I call them oopsie moments or whoopsie moments or, uh oh, like, scenarios. What are some changes that you've made based on client feedback or maybe even based on a not so stellar experience with a client? Mm hmm. Yeah, I like to use experience to instruct what I'm doing, always. Um, I think part of when we talk about social proof, talking about just our own self awareness around, like, what that's going to bring up for us, because positive feedback can bring things up and negative feedback can bring things up, even, like, lukewarm feedback can bring things up. Clients have spoken to me about feeling like their testimonials all sound the same. They feel like their testimonials maybe aren't enthusiastic enough or they aren't specific enough. And that brings up some, some feelings, for sure. And then, of course, negative feedback. Like, let's talk first about where you have, like, a glowing testimonial and there's one tiny little recommendation in there for how something could be improved and how our minds fixate on that moment. Right? Like, we've all done that. We've read the client has like ten sentences and half of one is devoted to, I guess this could have been a little bit better. And you're like, oh, my goodness. And it's all you can focus on, right? So I think being intentional business owners, conscious business owners, that an openness to that feedback, whatever it looks like, is a skill to be developed over time, at the beginning, it's harder for sure. And then over time, you get more comfortable and confident with that. But trying to come to it with an attitude of curiosity, an attitude of growth, is a skill that will serve you well in responding to social proof. But also in every other area of your business, I think remembering that one person's opinion is important, your opinion is also important, and trying to balance those two. So when you get feedback, asking yourself, does that feel true for me? Like, can I own part of that or can I accept part of that? Or do I agree with that? And sometimes the answer will be like, yeah, oh, I did drop the ball on that element. How can I make that right? Sometimes itll be, yeah, that is a problem that I hadnt realized I had. How can I change that in my client experience? And sometimes the feedback is like, oh, I wouldnt have framed it that way, or I wouldnt have phrased it that way. That kind of hurts. But I can see past the emotion that im feeling about it and I can respond to the information within it, you know, and sometimes the feedback is negative and you're not too sure what to take from it in the moment. And, like, maybe you can ask for a follow up if you're brave. Like, showing that willingness to improve and engage is important, whether no matter what kind of feedback comes back. Right. So being able to enter into that conversation if it feels safe for, for you, as long as you're respecting your own boundaries. But sometimes negative feedback can be more helpful than positive feedback because you might have a blind spot that you weren't aware of, that it's a bit of a gift that a client has made you aware of that through your feedback form. Yeah, definitely. I think I was asking also for any moment that you have had where you've gotten some feedback and made some changes. Yeah. Okay. So when I was doing branded web design is when I was like, really using the feedback to constantly shape the experience. So I would work with one client at a time, one after the other, which gave me a way to make a tweak in between that I could implement on the next one and test things out. So feedback that I had at the midpoint of my business was that the onboarding was really great and the beginning of the experience was really great. But then at the end, it fell off a little bit and communication was harder at the end of the project. And I used that to tell myself, okay, your timeframe needs to be shorter. So I agreed with that feedback. I could see that it was true. And at that time, I think my process was maybe might have been six weeks, like three weeks for the brand, three weeks for the website. And I realized, okay, with my manifesting generator energy, I can't sustain a client project for that long. Six weeks is too long of a timeframe for me to work on a product specific, like, where the work together has a product, which is the brand new website. That's too long for me. I lose enthusiasm. Like, my enthusiasm is high at the beginning but less at the end. So how can I change that? So I experimented with a lot of different timeframes. I went too short over into, like, a week and two weeks, and then I had to come back and course correct. But I landed on four weeks and then I looked again at my onboarding guide and thought, okay, how can I create an off boarding guide for the other side of this to be more supportive in the long run? Another example is when I worked with clients in a VIP setting, I had feedback that they didn't know how to use. I used to give two weeks of email back and forth after the VIP day, and I had feedback that that wasn't helpful because they didn't know how to use that. And so I ended up shifting that into, you can book a 30 minutes follow up call on your own time frame, so it doesn't matter when that gets booked. You decide when you need that and then it works better for you that way. So I took in that feedback of, like, this feature is kind of useless to me. And I thought, okay, what would be useful? And so I was hearing the emotion behind it of, like, after the VIP day, I'm satisfied, but I'm also kind of wiped because it was a lot. The VIP day is, like, intensive, right? Yeah. And that they needed that break afterwards and that that break would be different for different people. So not having a timeframe on that follow up call gave them the time to process that they needed, and then it made it more useful for them. And it made me feel better, too, because I was all up in my feelings of, like, well, no one's emailing me after for these two weeks. Right? Yeah. And so getting that client feedback was really helpful because it helped me to solve a problem. In this case, I knew I had, but it also helped me solve problems I didn't know that I had. Yeah. You made me think of two different things that I want to touch on. One is actually going back to when you get some really good feedback from a client and then you want to make use of it and you're like, oh, this is really great. Could I use it? So twice that's come up. Just today, actually, one podcast is going live where I repurposed a wrap up call with a client where we worked on done for you case studies. And I was going through, and I can't even remember why, but I ended up rewatching this video and I got to the end and I was like, this is perfect. I asked her a few questions, and so I wrote to her and I was like, hi, remember you had a really smart idea on our call where you said that I should take parts of calls with clients and reuse it as a podcast. So yours would be a perfect example. Would you be okay with me reusing or utilizing this and I can share it with you before it goes live? Whatever you need to feel comfortable. And she's like, no, go for it. And granted, she's a business owner, she did have this idea while we were on the call. She read my mind, and she has her own podcast, so she's very like you were saying in the know, she's aware of things. And so it was easier for her to be like, yes, go for it. Not everyone would necessarily be like that, but I counted that as a huge win. And then I also got some really great feedback in a slack channel with a client. And she was talking about the SEO packet that I do, and it was just one line out of, like, you know, a few sentences, and I was like, this is super amazing. Would you be okay if I use this? And I like, took her quote and put it in quotes, this on my SEO packet page? And she's like, oh, yeah, that's amazing. Go for it. And then I was thinking of one of my client fail stories, which I'm actually going to have my client and friend Ashley come on and talk about this with me on the podcast and then turn it into a case study because I want to feature like, this is a giant oopsie. Because we met, we had the onboarding call at that time. I was doing onboarding calls for it. I wrote the case study and sent her the first draft, and we were even going back and forth and doing modifications at that point. But there was a giant problem where I wrote the case study, navigating people to the wrong offer. We head to the end of it, and she was like, you know, I was really trying not to say anything, but I don't think this is going to work. I was trying to salvage it and I was like, oh, yeah, no, that's not going to work. Point being, I took this whole experience and I was like, we need a checkpoint here where when I listen to the interview or after I do the interview, I create the story arc and then I send that off for approval. So I make sure that I'm highlighting the things I need to and sending people where I need to. So there's a lot, like you said, that we can learn from all of these testimonials. Okay, final question for you. And then we'll tell people, like, how to connect with you. But do you have thoughts on editing testimonials? I do. I have thoughts on everything. Happy to share. My thoughts are, it's acceptable to edit things like grammar. It's acceptable to edit things like they've said Chantelle's program, and I want it to say online to action, or like, whatever the name of that program is, I think it's acceptable to, if they've written every sentence starting with your first name, to alternate a few of those with pronouns. I think it's acceptable to take a couple of sentences and, like, separate one longer paragraph into multiple testimonials. Yeah. I think that anything beyond that in general is something that you should just, like, flip back to the client to make sure that that's still in the spirit of what they were sharing. So any edit that you're kind of curious about, any edit that you're like, should I switch it to that? That's an internal cue that maybe you have edited a little far and to just send it back. So something I have to edit scripts in my book where I say, like, here's a little message that you can send to a client saying, you know, I made a couple of changes, paste in, like, change that you made. Is this okay with you? Yes or no? Like, totally fine. Either way, you know, just so that you have that confidence when you're sharing it, that you're still in integrity. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And what you hit on, which I think is so important, because I get this question a lot with clients, is making sure the essence of that message doesn't get changed. But I totally agree. Often the switches that I will make are inserting a name or changing it to a pronoun or making sure the name of the program or the service is actually mentioned, because those are opportunities, and we definitely want the reader to know, to associate, like, the positive feedback with, you know, us and our services or products. So. Could not agree more. Yeah. Sometimes the reader doesn't know what the client and, you know. Right. And so sometimes you need to have a couple of edits in there to just bring the person reading the testimonial into that shared world. Exactly. And, yeah, naming things is an easy way to do that, for sure. I love that. All right. Tell the people where they can find you. And I know you have very special something as well. Yes. So the website is clearquartscreative Co. That has all of my one on one offerings, workshops, and also my books. So I write the Aligned action series, and it's directly for solo entrepreneurs. It's something you can hold in your hand. It's print only. And I just recently launched the second one of that series, which is called simple social proof. And what it is is an aligned guide to an entire process of testimonials, start to finish. So how you can integrate them, if you've never asked anyone for a testimonial ever before, how you can incorporate this into your business. And that's available through my website or on Amazon. And then if you want to chat about anything or if you want to meet me virtually, that is on Instagram, where I hang out. And that's clearquartzcreative. I love it. It's amazing. And I will, like I said at the top of the interview, I will make sure that the podcast that we did together, where we were reviewing my profile, which, if you're not familiar with human design, it's those numbers. It's that ratio. So I'm a three five. And it was so fun to just get to reflect on my business and how that profile has shown up and just have that conversation with you so you can go listen to us talk even more. Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much for sitting here with me and, like, going so deep with social proof. And I cannot wait to check out this book of yours. Thanks, Brittany. All right, I will catch you next time.